Author Topic: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list  (Read 22510 times)

RobotDoctor

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Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« on: March 23, 2009, 11:04:06 PM »
If you were going to collect 10 persimmon drivers, what would you choose?

I am a MacGregor nut so most of mine are MacGregors from the early to mid 50s, and one from 1941.  There is a contemporary wood in the mix as well (as a bonus pick).  Here is my list (drivers in bold/underlined are ones I own, bold with no underline are ones I owned but have sold).

1954-1955 MacGregor 945TW
1949-1952 MacGregor 693
1953-1955 MacGregor M85TW
1953-1955 MacGregor M09 LFF
1950-1951 MacGregor M43
1941 MacGregor Tommy Armour HSW 4393
1954 MacGregor Toney Penna WWT
1954-1955 MacGregor Toney Penna TPT
1953-1955 MacGregor M75TW
1953 MacGregor 945TW
Wood Brothers Texan

I did not own the MacGregor TA HSW (Hogan) 4393 Driver but did own a 3 wood one (regret selling it).
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 11:05:37 PM by RobotDoctor »
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T.J.

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2009, 12:11:08 AM »
Think there enough "mature" golfers in this site who know what a persimmon driver is !
LIFE IS NOT FAIR! STOP WHINNING!!      Tee it up, let's play GOLF!

RobotDoctor

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2009, 12:13:16 AM »
Think there enough "mature" golfers in this site who know what a persimmon driver is !

Good point.  :laugh:
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geogolf

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2009, 12:41:03 AM »
Hmmmm let me think on this one  :-)

reflog74

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2009, 08:51:07 AM »
I'll take any 10 made by Old Tom Morris.   ;)   

Cha-ching!

John

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 10:26:30 AM »
Man - what a list.

I want all of those and these:

Either Davis Love's or Ben Crenshaw's M85

Greg Norman's M43

Toney Penna made a Special Edition Driver in the early 80's Blonde finish . One of those.

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2009, 11:49:11 AM »
I always wanted an original Mac George Bayer. I had a remake at one time, but it was a waste of wood. -sloan

weeicemon

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2009, 10:03:41 PM »
Doc:

I own 9 out of the 10 you listed.  The only one I don't have is the Penna WWT.  The only one I've ever seen in person was in the World Golf Hall of Fame when it was located in Pinehurst, NC.  I've been to The Golf Village in St. Augustine but don't remember seeing it there.  It's probably tucked away in a cardboard box somewhere in their warehouse.

RobotDoctor

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 11:38:22 PM »
Doc:

I own 9 out of the 10 you listed.  The only one I don't have is the Penna WWT.  The only one I've ever seen in person was in the World Golf Hall of Fame when it was located in Pinehurst, NC.  I've been to The Golf Village in St. Augustine but don't remember seeing it there.  It's probably tucked away in a cardboard box somewhere in their warehouse.

Sounds like a great collection! 

I have the top 3 I have always wanted.  I would love to have an M43 someday and the 1941 Tommy Armour HSW 4393 (Hogan).  However, these drivers would be wall hangers for me so it is not a priority for me at the moment.  I have other things that rank higher, like braces for my youngest and stuff like that.  I have to say that I do love the MacGregors from the 50s and 60s.
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Texsport

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 12:33:33 AM »
Nice list!

I've got #s 1,2,3,10.

Also have a Macgregor TA Velocitized that was a favorite for a long time.

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MoaningM

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 04:35:17 AM »
For me I have always wanted a Harry Busson of Walton Heath driver, he made driver for Norman, Langer, Ollie I believe Ollie was one of the last top players to move to metal

I've got a Busson 3 wood which I absolutely love! gorgeous craftsmanship!

geogolf

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 08:39:44 AM »
Well.after much thought.......  my list.

  To show some favoritism..... the photo below will show which model I like best  ;D
 

1) 1941 MacGregor Tommy Armour BJD

2) 1949 MacGregor Tommy Armour 693 Deep Face

3) 1952  MacGregor M09T-LFF Eye O Matic

4)  1951 MacGregor M43T  MT

5)  1952 MacGregor M85TW  Eye O Matic

6)  1954 MacGregor 653 T Eye O Matic

7)  1957 MacGregor George Bayer Super Eye O Matic

8 )  Wood Brothers "Texan"

9)  Cleveland Classics "Dunaway" Limited Edition

10) Hogan 1953 Limited Edition

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 10:15:08 AM »
You youngs guys can't imagine how much fun it was in the 70's and 80's to build a set of clubs. These woods were what we wanted as gamers. We had to be collectors and scroungers just to get the clubs we wanted all without ebay or the internet. I traded a years worth of lessons to get an Aoki Powerbilt. (oversized)

This thread makes me sad.

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 02:46:23 PM »
9)  Cleveland Classics "Dunaway" Limited Edition

Can you tell us (me) a bit more about this model? I saw one for sale as part of a bunch of various persimmon drivers on ebay a couple of weeks ago. It had a smooth face (no insert or grooves) and a stepless shaft. What's the story behind this driver? Is it another classic revisited by Cleveland?

northernpro

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 08:17:22 PM »
had a Mac 653,M75,M85,TA @ firing pin..still have Wood Bros Texan & a complete set of 925 TA Super-eye-o-matics..
got to love that feel & sound
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weeicemon

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2009, 09:34:56 PM »
Geo:

Wasn't that stamp used on #'s 3, 4, & 5?  Which one is the favorite?  I have #'s 3-10.  1 & 2 are almost impossible to find.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 09:36:30 PM by weeicemon »

RobotDoctor

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2009, 10:05:06 PM »
The sound and feel of a balata ball struck in the sweet spot of a solid persimmon driver is something that cannot be explained.  I have gamed the following brands of drivers: 

1980s Powerbilt
1980s Cleveland Classic (3 or 4 different models)
1980s Ben Hogan
1953-1955 MacGregor M85TW
1954 MacGregor TPT Special
1953-1955 MacGregor Tommy Armour 945TW
1953-1955 MacGregor M75

The best of the bunch for me was the 1954 MacGregor TPT Special in terms of solid feel and terrific ball trajectory. 

The longest sea level drive was with my Cleveland Classic RC75 driver (shafted with X100 shaft) at 325 yards.

The longest drive I ever hit (ever) was with my M85TW back in 1993 during a company tournament (long drive hole to boot).  This was at a course in Greeley, Colorado on a slightly downhill par 5 measuring at 545 yards.  My second shot in the scramble tournament was from 148 yards.  Who said persimmon was short?  :w00t:

I will say that the MacGregors felt more solid and I have to say it was because of the older, more dense, persimmon, called "old growth persimmon."  The old growth persimmon can be identified due to the natural dark color, instead of the whitish color of young persimmon that was kiln dried.  I feel that the old oil hardening process was much better and made the persimmon woods more dense and durable.  Wood Brothers hardened their persimmon in the same fashion.

That said, all the young metal headed wood golfers have no idea what they are missing.  The feel of persimmon striking a balata golf ball is one of the sweetest feelings I know of.
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geogolf

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2009, 10:19:02 PM »
Geo:

Wasn't that stamp used on #'s 3, 4, & 5?  Which one is the favorite?  I have #'s 3-10.  1 & 2 are almost impossible to find.

Beats me !   Fits the 2 Drivers I have with that Winged MT Logo.

9)  Cleveland Classics "Dunaway" Limited Edition

Can you tell us (me) a bit more about this model? I saw one for sale as part of a bunch of various persimmon drivers on ebay a couple of weeks ago. It had a smooth face (no insert or grooves) and a stepless shaft. What's the story behind this driver? Is it another classic revisited by Cleveland?

Dunaway was a long drive competitor in the late 80's.  In fact, Golf Magazine had a contest to pay someone if they could beat him using a standard length persimmon driver. I don;t think anyone ever topped him.

The "Dunaway" , there were 2 different versions. Both 6 screws. One had a solid color insert. Other was a Velocitized type Eye O matic.

eBay auction: #290300477999

84425

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2009, 04:53:04 AM »

Dunaway was a long drive competitor in the late 80's.  In fact, Golf Magazine had a contest to pay someone if they could beat him using a standard length persimmon driver. I don;t think anyone ever topped him.

The "Dunaway" , there were 2 different versions. Both 6 screws. One had a solid color insert. Other was a Velocitized type Eye O matic.

eBay auction: #290300477999

This is the Dunaway driver I saw on ebay: eBay auction: #310128557767 I thinkit is different from the one you posted. No insert and (according to the seller:) "the Shaft is a very heavy Taper seamless shaft almost like a trainer feel"

Stage1350

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2009, 08:08:59 AM »
Persimmon was on the way out when I could finally afford it, but I still have three copies of my Tommy Armour 986 Tour deep face persimmon driver, including one with a G. Loomis Tour X shaft,  DLIII specs.  The clubhead is almost as tall from sole to crown as it is from face to back.
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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2009, 10:32:35 AM »
The 4 best pieces of wood I ever owned.

Aoki Powerbilt. Tour Issue - Deeper Face
Palmer Peerless - first run - Clear finish to show the grain. Only one with a clear finish done by the factory. This came from a very old tree.
Cleveland Classic - TC 13 Black firing pin insert.

The best - Palmer Peerless with densitized process turned out in the "Arnie's Own" style. Deep face (2") One of 6 made for Mr. Palmer. Solid piece of wood no lead. Hard as a rock and heavy. I put a EI 70 Tour (original tour 1984) in it and never changed. Loaned to me with the promise if I ever quit using it I would give it back. So I hit a ball once in awhile  ;D
Sitting in my office as I type this.

Player in the 70's and 80's chased drivers like the Putter Talk guys chase putters. Interesting to me that the prices are about the same. It was not unusual to spend 3 or 4 hundred for a good driver and some of the models we are discussiong brought a great deal more. An M09T or BJD could bring $1000 easy.

Great Thread!!!!!!!!
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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2009, 11:49:58 AM »
I have the #1 old school woods that I would ever want, 2 complete sets of Tony Pena woods.  Both have the deep face driver, 2-wood, 3-wood, 4-wood, and 5-wood.  One set is persimmon and one set is laminate.  I used to have a set of McGregor Nicklaus persimmons with silver resin insert, but I gave those to my dad long ago, and my brother got my set of Powerbuilt persimmons.
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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2009, 02:22:24 AM »
I always wanted an original Mac George Bayer. I had a remake at one time, but it was a waste of wood. -sloan

T.R,
I picked up an original GB-1 out of a thrift store in Billings,MT a few years ago.  I was on my way to the airport and stopped in for a quick look.  Great find in great shape.  I knew I had a buyer for it, but wish now that I had kept that one.  It had the original grip, whipping and finish.  It went to a Cameron collector who also appreciates good wood, so it is in a safe place.
That was one BIG and very LONG driver.  I believe that stock length on it was nearly 45"..............unheard of at that time.  I got to talking with Byron Morgan one day and he had some great stories of George Bayer.  It is that sort of stuff that makes this game so incredible.
I played a lot of different persimmon woods in my day, but never really got into the collecting market with them.  When I think back on the woods that I have squandered, it really makes me sad.  I sold a 4 club set of fancy face woods, some years ago, that were ivory and .....  crap, I can't think of the other material, but it was gorgeous.  Got less than probably one of the clubs was worth for the set..............but still made money on 'em.
I have a curious one in a bag in the garage that I'll snap some pics of and post here.  It has an eagle in the face, if that rings a bell.
Thanks for the thread, it is sweet to read about the real classics.
LaMont in AZ

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2009, 02:32:21 AM »

This thread makes me sad.

Bar,
Don't be sad.  The sweet part of this thread is the fact that WE know the feel of a well-struck drive coming off a persimmon head.  There is a huge number of players in the game, today, that will never have that memory.  Cherish what we have and just smile.
Longest drive I ever hit was with a Haig Ultra, laminated maple, somewhere around age 13.  I could really crush it, back then.  Par 5, double dogleg, left then right.  Hit driver with a draw to about 225 out, then faded a 1-iron into a pin hidden behind the frontside trap.  I believe that the hole measured 565 from the tips and as a guest of the Men's Club, that was the tee of choice. 
Bargolf, I just got that same "sad" feeling that you spoke of.  I really DID used to be a stick, but you wouldn't know it to see me today.  I guess I'll take my own advice and just remember and smile.
Thanks again for a great thread, sorry for that JACK or two.
LaMont in AZ

t.r. sloan

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2009, 07:30:58 AM »
What's to stop us from going back and playing the game we used to know?  The score?  To quote Shivas Irons, "Dona' worry about the score so much," he said, "it's not the important thing."

Yikes, if we wanted to play an easy game we could always take up tennis. -t.r. sloan

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2009, 09:44:35 AM »
What stops me today is not the score, it is the lack of a suitable ball.  I would never strike a modern ball with a persimmon because the balls are harder and might crack the wood.  That said, I have a couple of old Titleist Balata golf balls so my M75 just might make an appearance this year.
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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2009, 10:00:57 AM »
Lamont,

Cool story and thanks for the pick me up.  ;D

Bruce

I played my persimmon one season with a Titleist Professional and did some damage to the face. Can't imagine what a new ball would do to it.



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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2009, 03:03:20 PM »
I agree, the newer ball will destroy a fiber insert from the fifties, but it won't hurt the plastic or aluminum inserts from the sixties and seventies. Anyway,
I didn't mean for us to play with our "trophy" clubs. We have "gamer" putters, why not woods?  How cool would it be to take a hundred bucks and over the course of the summer see who could compile and play the best set of classic clubs; woods, irons, and putter. No internet allowed. Hit the yard sales, flea markets, thrift shops; like we did when we were kids. So you split a neck or head; it's just a beater. Go find another. Remember digging through the bags of rental clubs in the back of the pro shop looking for that special club to add to your set?  That's more what old Tom had in mind when he invented this great game. -t.r.s.

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2009, 03:57:03 PM »
I could supply half of us out of my garage.
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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2009, 08:54:28 PM »
And I could supply the other half.

t.r. sloan

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2009, 09:59:52 PM »
Yes, but the hunt is half the fun. For example, today I found a Mac W2MT five wood with an aluminum five-screw insert with nice deep stampings, no dents, dings, or face erosion for $2.99, a 1971 Wilson Staff seven iron for a buck, and a 1978 'Staff five iron in great shape for another $2.99. Only eleven more clubs to go and I've still got $93.02 left in the budget. Better save some for new grips. -sloan

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2009, 04:05:01 PM »

The best - Palmer Peerless with densitized process turned out in the "Arnie's Own" style. Deep face (2") One of 6 made for Mr. Palmer. Solid piece of wood no lead. Hard as a rock and heavy. I put a EI 70 Tour (original tour 1984) in it and never changed. Loaned to me with the promise if I ever quit using it I would give it back. So I hit a ball once in awhile  ;D
Sitting in my office as I type this.

When you have your camera handy, Bruce, I'd love to see that one.

Maxwell

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2010, 08:13:11 AM »
Well.after much thought.......  my list.

  To show some favoritism..... the photo below will show which model I like best  ;D
 

1) 1941 MacGregor Tommy Armour BJD

2) 1949 MacGregor Tommy Armour 693 Deep Face

3) 1952  MacGregor M09T-LFF Eye O Matic

4)  1951 MacGregor M43T  MT

5)  1952 MacGregor M85TW  Eye O Matic

6)  1954 MacGregor 653 T Eye O Matic

7)  1957 MacGregor George Bayer Super Eye O Matic

8 )  Wood Brothers "Texan"

9)  Cleveland Classics "Dunaway" Limited Edition

10) Hogan 1953 Limited Edition


You have a MacGregor crown stamp for M43's and M85's. You must have been a "good child!" Max

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2010, 09:26:18 AM »
I wanted one of the Wood Brothers "Kool Kat" drivers or the "Corker".

pcirelli

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2010, 10:05:10 AM »
I started playing in the and I guess that's when the big transition from persimmon to "metal" occurred. I wasn't good enough (or know enough) to really appreciate these works of art or balatas, but I don't mind that my golf ball doesn't "smile" at me any more!   :)

One question: where the hell are all the pictures??? Later!
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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2010, 01:49:10 PM »
Wow how have I not seen this thread before??
I have loved the 1940s and 50s MacGregors since before I was in high school; 2o+ years ago. I have had most of the drivers on my list, but of course there are a few I have yet to come across.
Even though the they are not worth nearly a fraction of what they were worth back in the day, I still cant get enough of them. They are all beautiful, and no two are ever alike, thats for sure. Some have stellar grain, some not so much, some havegrea stamps, neck numbers, some have surprises! (I once pulled a plate of an all original Byron Nelson 259 driver, when I was refinishing it, and written in the cavity were the initials "HT" and the date 9252 (I am assuming it was the date).. Very cool..
Anyway, its actually a very good thing that the prices are way down, as I could have never afforded some of the woods I have owned in 1988 prices!!

Here is my list:

1) Toney Penna WW   THE HOLY GRAIL!!(Never seen one in person.. I could stop collecting if I ever found one!!)
2) Tommy Armour BJD-- Never owned one, but have refinished several. HUGE head
3)Tourney M09LFF Jumbo~ Have owned several and refinished 7 or 8 of them. My favorite version is the early one with the red fiber insert.
4) Hogan Pro Model- I have 2 of these at the moment, both black. *They originally came in black or rosewood)
5) Toney Penna TP Special- Currently own 2 sets of these, and one other driver.. One driver  has had extensive work done to it, the other two are all original and sitting on my rack in the basement...patiently waiting for refinishing (They need it!)
6)Toney Penna 403PT-
The Penna stuff is my favorite. This model is sharp.. 69 style head, sweepback plate, red fiber.. a classic!! I have a nice head down in the workshop.. waiting for a nice original shaft and grip to come along, then I'll redo it
7)Tourney M85= A classic.. should be on everyones list! I am currently refinishing a really nice set for a friend. They were mine, but no longer. Thats okay; I will look for a new set!
8)Armour 945. I have had prob 6 or 7 sets of these at one time or another, and one of those sets was the best AO set I ever had.. Dont have any of them at the moment.. Sold them to buy others.. A true persimmon ho!
9) Armour 693- The most sought after set.. Dont have any at the moment.. I have had so many of them I got a bit bored with them.. No reason to though.. Great sticks, pear shape is just awesome.. Find a deep face model and dont let go (Like I did)   :(
10)Armour 653 Eye O Matic- There are clubs in my list that are rarer, but short of the WWs which I will prob. never see, this is my favorite set. I just love the wbw insret, the sweepback plate, the driver always seems to be deep. Heres another thing about the 653s.. Every set I have ever owned (that was original that is) had the deepest, best stampings overall on the toe, compared to other woods.. Its uncanny.. I have a 1,3,4,5 set down in the basement which are no exception.. Beautiful clubs! Looking for an AO 2 wood to finish the set. Anyone got one??

Here are some honorable mentions:
M75 Tourneys (Love the wrw insert) My first ever classic Mac was an M75 OH 2 wood
M65 Tourneys (The swan neck is great)
Any Velocitized woods (Pure 1950s styling with the Rocket.. SO cool)
George Bayers.. Always Nice and deep
M43 woods.. Just about the same head as Penna 403, Model 65, 945 and 693, just with a butterfly plate. Had a few of these)
1967-68 Nicklaus VIP.. LOVE the crown and toe stamps
Demaret Master woods- The only store line model in my list.. I really like this driver.. I have a nice example downstairs, and it always looks great to me. Red fiber insert, a great block!
Hogan 4303.. Nice woods... Got a set downstairs too. Nice deep face!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 01:51:38 PM by Eviltwin »

MoaningM

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2010, 02:45:16 PM »
Twin,

Whats the story about the Penna WW, you got any pics of it, never seen it before !

Eviltwin

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2010, 02:53:42 PM »
Hi~
The Penna WW Special (White Wood Special) came out in 1954, 1955. They were 100% custom.. they were only made on request.
The customer had the option of any insert, shaft, grip. The woods were finished in  a white paint. The head is essentially the same as the TP Special.
Because they were all custom, very few sets were made. I saw a pic once of a set of all original WW woods, numbers 123456&7!!
Even today these sets would bring in the 1000s..
Keep your eyes peeled!
-John

geogolf

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2010, 06:27:02 PM »
Twin,

Whats the story about the Penna WW, you got any pics of it, never seen it before !

I can get some Catalog pics of the WW

Also of note. The Modern balls which are made to spin less off a driver..Not a really good combo with persimmon.    High Center of Gravity persimmon + Low spinny balls = Line drives.......at times !

jr

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2010, 07:21:28 PM »
How about some photos of your favorites?

RobotDoctor

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2010, 08:16:50 PM »
If you were going to collect 10 persimmon drivers, what would you choose?

I am a MacGregor nut so most of mine are MacGregors from the early to mid 50s, and one from 1941.  There is a contemporary wood in the mix as well (as a bonus pick).  Here is my list (drivers in bold/underlined are ones I own, bold with no underline are ones I owned but have sold).

1954-1955 MacGregor 945TW
1949-1952 MacGregor 693
1953-1955 MacGregor M85TW
1953-1955 MacGregor M09 LFF
1950-1951 MacGregor M43
1941 MacGregor Tommy Armour HSW 4393
1954 MacGregor Toney Penna WWT
1954-1955 MacGregor Toney Penna TPT
1953-1955 MacGregor M75TW
1953 MacGregor 945TW
Wood Brothers Texan

I did not own the MacGregor TA HSW (Hogan) 4393 Driver but did own a 3 wood one (regret selling it).

I have picked up the M43 since the start of this thread.  8)
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RobotDoctor

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2010, 08:31:39 PM »
Twin,

Whats the story about the Penna WW, you got any pics of it, never seen it before !

Ask and ye shall receive.

The WWT is the driver on top of the page.  This is truly a rare gem.  I have also never seen one and my former clubsmith had only seen one set.  He apprenticed under Toney Penna, himself.
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RobotDoctor

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2010, 08:37:28 PM »
I may have to talk to you in the future about one of the TPT Special sets you have.  I had a set once and regret trading them off.  The driver was my gamer between 1992 and 1993.  I traded that set for a set of M85W.  Good set, excellent driver that particular M85W was but the TPT Special was, well, special.  That is probably the single club I regret letting go out of all the clubs I have owned (woods, metal woods, irons, putters, etc).

Wow how have I not seen this thread before??
I have loved the 1940s and 50s MacGregors since before I was in high school; 2o+ years ago. I have had most of the drivers on my list, but of course there are a few I have yet to come across.
Even though the they are not worth nearly a fraction of what they were worth back in the day, I still cant get enough of them. They are all beautiful, and no two are ever alike, thats for sure. Some have stellar grain, some not so much, some havegrea stamps, neck numbers, some have surprises! (I once pulled a plate of an all original Byron Nelson 259 driver, when I was refinishing it, and written in the cavity were the initials "HT" and the date 9252 (I am assuming it was the date).. Very cool..
Anyway, its actually a very good thing that the prices are way down, as I could have never afforded some of the woods I have owned in 1988 prices!!

Here is my list:

1) Toney Penna WW   THE HOLY GRAIL!!(Never seen one in person.. I could stop collecting if I ever found one!!)
2) Tommy Armour BJD-- Never owned one, but have refinished several. HUGE head
3)Tourney M09LFF Jumbo~ Have owned several and refinished 7 or 8 of them. My favorite version is the early one with the red fiber insert.
4) Hogan Pro Model- I have 2 of these at the moment, both black. *They originally came in black or rosewood)
5) Toney Penna TP Special- Currently own 2 sets of these, and one other driver.. One driver  has had extensive work done to it, the other two are all original and sitting on my rack in the basement...patiently waiting for refinishing (They need it!)
6)Toney Penna 403PT-
The Penna stuff is my favorite. This model is sharp.. 69 style head, sweepback plate, red fiber.. a classic!! I have a nice head down in the workshop.. waiting for a nice original shaft and grip to come along, then I'll redo it
7)Tourney M85= A classic.. should be on everyones list! I am currently refinishing a really nice set for a friend. They were mine, but no longer. Thats okay; I will look for a new set!
8)Armour 945. I have had prob 6 or 7 sets of these at one time or another, and one of those sets was the best AO set I ever had.. Dont have any of them at the moment.. Sold them to buy others.. A true persimmon ho!
9) Armour 693- The most sought after set.. Dont have any at the moment.. I have had so many of them I got a bit bored with them.. No reason to though.. Great sticks, pear shape is just awesome.. Find a deep face model and dont let go (Like I did)   :(
10)Armour 653 Eye O Matic- There are clubs in my list that are rarer, but short of the WWs which I will prob. never see, this is my favorite set. I just love the wbw insret, the sweepback plate, the driver always seems to be deep. Heres another thing about the 653s.. Every set I have ever owned (that was original that is) had the deepest, best stampings overall on the toe, compared to other woods.. Its uncanny.. I have a 1,3,4,5 set down in the basement which are no exception.. Beautiful clubs! Looking for an AO 2 wood to finish the set. Anyone got one??

Here are some honorable mentions:
M75 Tourneys (Love the wrw insert) My first ever classic Mac was an M75 OH 2 wood
M65 Tourneys (The swan neck is great)
Any Velocitized woods (Pure 1950s styling with the Rocket.. SO cool)
George Bayers.. Always Nice and deep
M43 woods.. Just about the same head as Penna 403, Model 65, 945 and 693, just with a butterfly plate. Had a few of these)
1967-68 Nicklaus VIP.. LOVE the crown and toe stamps
Demaret Master woods- The only store line model in my list.. I really like this driver.. I have a nice example downstairs, and it always looks great to me. Red fiber insert, a great block!
Hogan 4303.. Nice woods... Got a set downstairs too. Nice deep face!
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TP Mills Tour Huey
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RobotDoctor

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2010, 08:39:24 PM »
I just posted the only picture of the Toney Penna WWT that is in the Kaplan MacGregor catalog.  I thought this was a 2 year run but the catalog only shows 1954.

Twin,

Whats the story about the Penna WW, you got any pics of it, never seen it before !

I can get some Catalog pics of the WW

Also of note. The Modern balls which are made to spin less off a driver..Not a really good combo with persimmon.    High Center of Gravity persimmon + Low spinny balls = Line drives.......at times !
Byron Morgan DH89x GSS
Byron Morgan Designed by Captain Morgan, CU SS
TP Mills Tour Huey
TP Mills Heritage
Wilson Designed by Arnold Palmer
Ping Zing (85020)

Tad

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2010, 10:53:13 PM »
Let me say that you should not be afraid to play your drivers with the softer of the modern balls.  We play in our hickory golf www.hickorygolfers.com events with balls like the Srixon AD333, Wilson Zip, B300RX and others of this type.  You can see the hickories I make at www.tommorrisclubs.com.  Let me say that some players do not have inserts in the old heads and they stand up to play very well. If you are afraid of the fibre inserts you can surely hit the later inserts.
When I was with MAXFLI I made many persimmon heads for the staff and they are just slightly shorter then the modern drivers.  I think most agree about 10%.  With hickory we play about 5800-6000 yards and with a modern persimmon we play from 6300-6500.  Tad

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2010, 11:10:47 PM »
I am currently gaming a 1950 MacGregor M43T driver and a 1953 MacGregor Tommy Armour 945W 3-wood.  I am gaming a Bridgestone e5 golf ball.  This is a high spin ball that allows good spin off the woods and forces me to have a more sweeping iron path (which is what I constantly work on anyway).  The sweeping iron path reduces the spin I generate when I come down too steep.

When stuck well, I think that the M43T might be 10% (or slightly less on dry conditions) than the modern driver.  I am sending my second M43T back to my clubsmith and am having it reshafted with an Aerotech Steelfiber ss75 graphite shaft.  I will have this driver cut to either 45" or 44.5".  This should be an interesting test.
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Eviltwin

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2010, 08:05:49 AM »
Hi RD~
Thanks for the pic of bthe WW Specials..
I have alwaysb thought I would like to get a stamp made up that says "Oil Hardened WW Special", and then route off  the toe stamp area of my TP Specials, splice a piece on, restamp and then paint white/refinish.. Of course they would never be passed ooff as real, they would just be wall hangers.. I have 2 sets of the TPs, so I may do it.. What do you think?? Is this a good idea?? I am confident I could get them to look good, as far assplicing the piece in, etc.. have done it in the past to damaged woods..
It will be cool to have them, surely as close as I will ever get!!

Tad

Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2010, 08:30:40 AM »
It was done in the "Glory" days of persimmon.  People did fakes by steaming the top of the head to raise the wrong stamp from the head.  Then sanding and putting on the valuable stamp.  They also did sole plates.  Tad

bargolf

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2010, 08:44:17 AM »
The favorite.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 08:49:20 AM by bargolf »
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MoaningM

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Re: Top 10 Persimmon Woods would be on your collector wish list
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2010, 09:28:51 AM »
Great stuff Robot and Geo, so what exactly was the White Glaze made from? must have been fairy durable otherwise would peel and chip far too easy. Surely was'nt paint?

Bruce that Palmer peerless is in fantastic condition! would love to give that a swipe!