Topic: The Rise of the Mini Putter? (Read 1146 times)

scottyredx3 · « **on:** January 04, 2010, 07:30:14 pm »

It seems as if every manufacturer is now making a mini model for the collectors, I have been putter enthusiast for roughly 2 years and never really saw a huge mini following in 08 but spring/summer of 09 onwards minis have been something or a rage

This may sound crazy but byron and betti started the making lots (I am aware of the 3/4 betti that has been around years) mini models around the time of that 45+ page,cameron mini, thread monstrosity on Golfwrx. What do you guys think of the mini, is it here to stay or will it fade away.

Venno · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2010, 08:00:31 pm »

Bettinardi came out with our 3/4 BB1 in 2007 which was way before the Mini thread on golfwrx, it was an aluminum bronze BB1 3/4 of the size of a normal BB1 and there were only 7 made. In the years to follow we have made BB1 and BB8 minis in small runs with different finishes and out of different metals, but never repeating anything we have done before.... I think the most made of any one particular head/finish/metal combo was 12.

MarcJones · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2010, 08:02:30 pm »

I would love to own a 3/4 some day!!

sandbagger · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2010, 09:52:31 pm »

IMO the Mini is here to stay! I think companies will continue to R+D them and feed the trend.

TonyT · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2010, 11:46:11 pm »

Quote from: Venno on January 04, 2010, 08:00:31 pm

Bettinardi came out with our 3/4 BB1 in 2007 which was way before the Mini thread on golfwrx, it was an aluminum bronze BB1 3/4 of the size of a normal BB1 and there were only 7 made. In the years to follow we have made BB1 and BB8 minis in small runs with different finishes and out of different metals, but never repeating anything we have done before.... I think the most made of any one particular head/finish/metal combo was 12.

I have read that some people prefer to game a mini head, and that I respect. But does the mini head provide any performance enhancements over the full sized brother, or was it just to make something limited? Was any R+D done that concluded that a mini head is a "better" putter?

T

502 to Right · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2010, 01:20:32 am »

I raised this issue back in July. Some interesting commentary.

http://www.puttertalk.com/community/index.php/topic,17362.0.html

rrkman · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2010, 11:24:10 am »

I agree that the 'popularity' of the mini has kind of increased since that discussion but not sure how much influence it had....although it is safe to say that it did introduce the 'mini' concept to a lot of readers. Plus, I've seen examples of 'minis' from a few companies (including Byron and Betti) that date to well before that discussion.

My confusion has always been about the 'sweetspot' of the mini. I've heard (and 'discussed') this point from many mini fans and just don't understand how decreasing the length of the putter can increase the sweetspot? Doesn't this go against everything putter makers have told us over the past 10 years - move weighting towards the heel and toe to increase the sweetspot. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

drewspin · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2010, 11:33:55 am »

I would call it a mini resurgence.

Seems that people have been pleasantly surprised by how well they perform and manufacturers have started making more of them to satisfy demand.

The mini form has been around for a while, however. Byron made his DH9 model for a LONG time before any thread about the Cameron Mini on WRX began.

If we see a rebirth of the Ping Echo (Echo 2, N-Echo) (a great little putter) you'll know there is a real mini revolution underway.

finalist · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2010, 11:41:09 am »

Byron was making the DH9 almost 20 years ago. It was popular in Japan and featured in a famous Japanese comic book. The hero kid's favorite possession was a JB DH9. Note the DH9 is smaller than the newer DH89 Mini. The DH89 Mini feels like a mallet to me. It looks like a compact anser shape, but plays like a mallet and packs in 350 grams.

drewspin · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2010, 11:42:37 am »

Quote from: rrkman on January 05, 2010, 11:24:10 am

My confusion has always been about the 'sweetspot' of the mini. I've heard (and 'discussed') this point from many mini fans and just don't understand how decreasing the length of the putter can increase the sweetspot? Doesn't this go against everything putter makers have told us over the past 10 years - move weighting towards the heel and toe to increase the sweetspot. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

In my thinking, the proverbial "sweet spot" --- which I would define as the point on the face of the putter that is in line with the center of percussion --- is always an infinitessimally small point (whether the putter is large or small).

It is therefore wrong to say that any putter can extend the sweet spot, however a smaller putter may focus your attention in such a way that you are better able to connect with the center of percussion.

rrkman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2010, 11:50:07 am »

I guess it depends on how you define sweetspot....and you're right, a true sweetspot is a tiny dot and the same size on all putters. I guess I'm talking about forgiveness and the size of the area where you don't see much (if any) difference in performance or feel.

I've had people tell me (that used a mini) that this 'spot' was larger than what their anser style putter had. I understand that maybe they are making a better and more precise stroke because of it's size (and this was my initial thought based on what they said) but to say that this 'spot' is larger, just doesn't make any since to me - at least based on physics, etc.

Stage1350 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2010, 11:55:43 am »

Quote from: drewspin on January 05, 2010, 11:42:37 am

Quote from: rrkman on January 05, 2010, 11:24:10 am
My confusion has always been about the 'sweetspot' of the mini. I've heard (and 'discussed') this point from many mini fans and just don't understand how decreasing the length of the putter can increase the sweetspot? Doesn't this go against everything putter makers have told us over the past 10 years - move weighting towards the heel and toe to increase the sweetspot. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

In my thinking, the proverbial "sweet spot" --- which I would define as the point on the face of the putter that is in line with the center of percussion --- is always an infinitessimally small point (whether the putter is large or small).

It is therefore wrong to say that any putter can extend the sweet spot, however a smaller putter may focus your attention in such a way that you are better able to connect with the center of percussion.

I would agree with this. It's the same type of ignorant statements that people make regarding older putters and forged blade irons. They think they are unhittable.

If you hit the center of percussion, you can hit or putt anything. All the technology does is minimize the mistake when you screw up your swing. While I'm not sure the mini is more than a fad for collectors, they should be no more difficult to putt than a regular Anser.

rrkman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2010, 12:20:31 pm »

Quote from: Stage1350 on January 05, 2010, 11:55:43 am

Quote from: drewspin on January 05, 2010, 11:42:37 am
Quote from: rrkman on January 05, 2010, 11:24:10 am
My confusion has always been about the 'sweetspot' of the mini. I've heard (and 'discussed') this point from many mini fans and just don't understand how decreasing the length of the putter can increase the sweetspot? Doesn't this go against everything putter makers have told us over the past 10 years - move weighting towards the heel and toe to increase the sweetspot. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

In my thinking, the proverbial "sweet spot" --- which I would define as the point on the face of the putter that is in line with the center of percussion --- is always an infinitessimally small point (whether the putter is large or small).

It is therefore wrong to say that any putter can extend the sweet spot, however a smaller putter may focus your attention in such a way that you are better able to connect with the center of percussion.

I would agree with this. It's the same type of ignorant statements that people make regarding older putters and forged blade irons. They think they are unhittable.

If you hit the center of percussion, you can hit or putt anything. All the technology does is minimize the mistake when you screw up your swing. While I'm not sure the mini is more than a fad for collectors, they should be no more difficult to putt than a regular Anser.

I agree with what you are saying but if you ever saw my swing, you would understand why I feel a true blade is unhittable.

Plus I agree that if you hit the dead center every time, no difference....but how many people actually do this? Even the pros use high MOI putters (and other clubs as well)......why? These guys are pretty good and I would assume that they hit dead center (or close to it) most of the time.

Heartgrad · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2010, 11:31:15 am »

Since I just got the Byron mini tester putter last night, I might be qualified to throw a little into the discussion. I did some carpet putting with it last night and I agree with finalist that the putter behaves like a mallet. It isn't face balanced but close. Toe hang is about 4 o'clock, I think. I found the sweet spot to be small, like any other putter, but when hit slightly off center, I found the distance control to be very consistent. I haven't gotten it out to the putting green yet (tomorrow) but I was pleasantly surprised. The Byron tester is carbon (OC) and it's very, very soft.

I will also say that after 10 minutes with the Mini 89, my 007 looked laughably large. I actually had a hard time getting used to how long the blade was.

finalist · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2010, 01:31:20 pm »

There's a great Byron story that Z-man knows well. I can't remember it too well, so maybe he can fill in the details.... At some golf show years and years ago some other maker had a robot putting machine showing off his putter's performance on mishits. Byron had his DH9 and got to "plug it into" the robot's hands. The DH9 performed better than the other guys on mishits.

nvgolfdude · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:06:31 pm »

Quote from: TonyT on January 04, 2010, 11:46:11 pm

Quote from: Venno on January 04, 2010, 08:00:31 pm
Bettinardi came out with our 3/4 BB1 in 2007 which was way before the Mini thread on golfwrx, it was an aluminum bronze BB1 3/4 of the size of a normal BB1 and there were only 7 made. In the years to follow we have made BB1 and BB8 minis in small runs with different finishes and out of different metals, but never repeating anything we have done before.... I think the most made of any one particular head/finish/metal combo was 12.

I have read that some people prefer to game a mini head, and that I respect. But does the mini head provide any performance enhancements over the full sized brother, or was it just to make something limited? Was any R+D done that concluded that a mini head is a "better" putter?

T

Tony, as you know we are running two test panels with Byron's current version of the Mini, one with a standard plumbers neck and one with a welded round neck. As was mentioned by heartgrad, the p/n has about a 4:00 toe hang while the round neck has toe flow of between 4:30 and 5:00.

Based on my personal experience with both test putters and my personal model, I think the best description of rolling a Mini is that nearly everything feels very "solid" coming off the face. IMO this is because to get a 350 gram putter the face is thicker and the bumpers larger. In short, the mass of the putter is concentrated into a smaller area laterally as compared to a "standard size" putter. Getting used to the look of the compact head is probably the tough part for most people.

For those who think the Mini putter a fad, I think that you have to ask yourself is a baby grand piano a fad? I see the high quality Mini putters from Byron and Bettinardi as alternatives for getting the ball into the hole. Well made Mini's are here to stay as long as there are people who like them. Keep in mind that there were a lot of people who thought hybrids were a fad too...

Too see more of what folks are saying about the Byron Mini's go here:

http://www.puttertalk.com/community/index.php/topic,17167.0.html

http://www.puttertalk.com/community/index.php/topic,17250.0.html

PS - The round neck Mini was stolen in transit from CT to MO by either a postal service employee or contractor.

It is the only round neck Mini that Byron has made thus far. If you see it for sale somewhere, please let us know.

jr · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:11:29 pm »

David, I can think of another round neck mini! :-)

http://www.puttertalk.com/community/index.php/topic,1589.msg188187.html#msg188187

HULL17RW · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2010, 10:21:36 pm »

The T.P. Mills Mini Softtail is probably one of the most in demand putters and is completely Custom Shaped and you can get Round Necks, Plumber Necks, Pepi Hand Bent Plumbers Neck. Byron and Bettinardi make a fine Mini as does Gene Nead. The T.P. Mills Mini's are in high demand as well. Plus the new Mini Fleetwood is debuting at the PGA Show and if it's as popular as the Regular Fleetwoods it is going to be one of the most wanted putters this year.

Kevin
HULL17RW

nvgolfdude · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2010, 12:31:06 am »

Quote from: jr on January 16, 2010, 08:11:29 pm

David, I can think of another round neck mini! :-)

http://www.puttertalk.com/community/index.php/topic,1589.msg188187.html#msg188187

Oh that old thing... :laugh: J.K. To be more precise, as of the time it was made it was the only carbon round neck Mini Byron had made. Hopefully there will be many more to come.

nvgolfdude · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2010, 12:32:14 am »

Quote from: HULL17RW on January 16, 2010, 10:21:36 pm

The T.P. Mills Mini Softtail is probably one of the most in demand putters and is completely Custom Shaped and you can get Round Necks, Plumber Necks, Pepi Hand Bent Plumbers Neck. Byron and Bettinardi make a fine Mini as does Gene Nead. The T.P. Mills Mini's are in high demand as well. Plus the new Mini Fleetwood is debuting at the PGA Show and if it's as popular as the Regular Fleetwoods it is going to be one of the most wanted putters this year.

Kevin
HULL17RW

Viva la Mini!

mike t · « **Reply #20 on:** January 21, 2010, 05:31:04 pm »

are minis just small headed putters. I guess Jack was using a mini all those years when he had the george low putter ?? What models are out there now

finalist · « **Reply #21 on:** January 21, 2010, 06:27:22 pm »

For me personally I found it easier to adjust from standard size heads to the mini heads, BUT going from a mini head back to standard was weird. The standard head size looks HUGE for a few minutes... almost like it's a giant's putter. Perspectives can be funny when your going back and forth between putts trying to gain a comparison. Also, the mini heads make the shafts "look" longer because the mini size creates a depth illusion (just for a few minutes if you trade between headsizes fast enough)

HeadonaStick · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2010, 08:37:53 pm »

It isn't a question of better putting for me; all of my Mills putt great. I like the Mini because it is a little different and unique. The Mini is just so damn cute

MarkCuranovic · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2010, 09:31:37 pm »

there was a fleetwood min?

??

p[ics?

kylek · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:35:29 pm »

I am very intrigued by the mini putters. So much in fact I am getting ready to place an order for one!!!!

Kyle

MarkCuranovic · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:45:39 pm »

"they were in the pool!"

evo2 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2010, 05:01:42 am »

there is an earlier thread with pics of the fleetwood mini but I can't find it....

but I did save one of the pics of a raw fleetwood mini

mws82 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 17, 2010, 06:39:11 pm »

To anyone that has gamed a mini. Was it harder to put with? Dont blast me if this sounded silly.

HeadonaStick · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2010, 07:43:07 pm »

Honestly, I don't really notice much of a difference. A hair more "dense" feeling. Maybe it is a little easier to hit the center - there isn't as much room to miss the sweet spot

jr · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2010, 08:46:34 pm »

I have been gaming a Mini for a year about 80% of the time. Most of the time it was a Bettinardi 3/4 BB1 DASS and lately it is a Byron copper Mini. I think they are easier to putt with than a regular putter of similar style and I think the Byron copper Mini is one of the best putters I have ever used. It is a little bulkier looking than the 3/4 and the copper has a really soft feel. If you do some digging in the Byron section you will find a really neat story about Byron's original Dale Head 9, which is the same size and shape of the current Byron Mini, and how it was put on a putting robot at the PGA show a decade or more ago in a comparison test to illustrate another manufactures superior putter for off center putters. In a nut shell the manufactures putter sunk the dead center putt and was really close on the toe side and heal side mis hits. When the Bale Head 9 was put in the machine it also made the dead center putter but then the toe mis hit went in the hole and then the heal mis hit went in the hole. Needless to say the manufacture asked Byron to take his Dale Head 9 and leave his booth or he would not be able to sell any of his putters.

puttputt · « **Reply #30 on:** February 17, 2010, 08:49:51 pm »

I can backup everything jr said about the copper mini byron.. While I traded it, it was one of the best feeling putters I have had in my hands. I saw no performance issues with it being a mini. It was just tough on my eyes.. I should have given it more time.

Kevin

kylek · « **Reply #31 on:** February 17, 2010, 08:52:54 pm »

Quote from: puttputt on February 17, 2010, 08:49:51 pm

I can backup everything jr said about the copper mini byron.. While I traded it, it was one of the best feeling putters I have had in my hands. I saw no performance issues with it being a mini. It was just tough on my eyes.. I should have given it more time.

Kevin

Hey Kevin... you can give my Nead Mini a run in a few weeks

I can't wait to roll this one around.

kahkwa golfer · « **Reply #32 on:** March 07, 2010, 02:29:28 pm »

I love that story about the putter testing. I recently picked up a Scratch/Nead mini and it's quickly become my favorite putter. While the feel isn't quite as soft as with my Bettinardi DASS BB-1, the ball just seems to go where it's supposed to much more often.

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Author Topic: The Rise of the Mini Putter? (Read 1146 times)