Topic: What's with the mini putters? (Read 1412 times)

502 to Right · « **on:** July 25, 2009, 09:34:23 pm »

What's with the mini putters? And I don't mean mini-putters for kids--I mean mini putters from established putter makers like Cameron, Bettinardi, Byron and Mills. I don't get it at all and they are selling for crazy high prices.

If you like them, please explain.

omeletpants · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2009, 11:31:13 pm »

What do you think?

502 to Right · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2009, 11:45:21 pm »

I think they're goofy. I can understand getting one for your son or daughter but otherwise I don't get the attraction. I don't see anyone playing with mini drivers or mini wedges.

omeletpants · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2009, 12:48:04 am »

Some people like a very compact putter compared to many of the oversized blades and mallets. How much face area does a person need to make a putt? Monster blades and mallets can be more difficult to square up. Putting is about precision and touch, not mass.

xxio · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2009, 03:41:26 am »

Design standpoint or collector's standpoint?

LindenH · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2009, 05:00:19 am »

I like the look of them and am considering buying one for my gamer rotation (when a flow neck becomes available).

Although 'mini', I don't think there's that much difference - toe to heel, a Cameron 009 is a hair under 4½", a Cameron Squareback is just over 3¾" and a TP Mills Softtail is a shade over 4". The Mini or 3/4 heads are reported to be approx ¾ of the Dalehead - BB1 - Anser - 009 sizes so about ½" less than a Squareback.

Quote

What's with the mini putters? And I don't mean mini-putters for kids--I mean mini putters from established putter makers like Cameron, Bettinardi, Byron and Mills

I know Bettinardi has made some in the past and Byron is making some now, but is TP Mills joining in as well?

glenwayputters · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2009, 07:18:37 am »

No, we are not making anything that is 3/4 of the size of one of our designs. The "mini softtail" was born from a customer request. We had no intention of following through with any sort of production runs. They are very good putters and some folks do like the smaller size at address. The balance is perfect on them and are very popular to turn into a custom model.

Jay

jr · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2009, 08:49:53 am »

I have numerous of the small head putters including the Bettinardi BB1 style, the Morgan DH89 style, and the Mills Softtail style. I have used the smaller head style putters for more rounds of golf in the last year than standard size putters. I find that they are easier to hit in the sweet spot, mis-hits are less off target than on a standard or big headed putter, and they are just easier on the eyes and look better in my opinion.

I do not think they are any bigger than say an 8802 or similar blade but give me the look that I have grown to like, the Anser style look and provide the heal toe weighting that is nice in a blade but that you do not get in an 8802 blade or many other blades.

Big headed clubs, like a 460 Driver or large headed irons, do not provide me with any confidence or visual appeal. TO me the large the head the smaller the ball looks and a smaller ball is more difficult to hit.

Also, small or "mini" putters are no more for children than large or oversized putters are for old people or people that are very big people.

emde76 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2009, 10:14:16 am »

The only "mini" that I've stroked is from Odyssey. It seemed very easy to line up, and the impact felt more concentrated when I putted the ball.

I've got nothing against them.

tbws6 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2009, 10:19:56 am »

I think they draw attention because they are different, but modeled after a familiar design. I also think they have a high interest because of the reported value of the Cameron mini that RJB made.

If there was an advantage to the smaller headed Ansers, I am quite sure lots of Tour pros would use one, and none do to my knowledge.

Z-MAN · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2009, 11:21:55 am »

My next shipment of putters has 2 extra minis . I plan on trying one out as soon as they arrive.

luv2golow · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2009, 11:28:12 am »

I personally think that some of us; myself included, prefer a more compact design from heel to toe. The "mini's" give us an option that was not readily available in the past.

I personally can't wait for my mini to arrive to give her a proper and thorough testing. I also think it's fantastic that some of the more prominent makers are now offering this option to the masses.

This is one of the things that makes PT great...... customers and makers collaborating to create interesting new designs and new interpretations of older ones.

I just hope they work as great as they look.

luv2golow · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2009, 11:29:29 am »

Quote from: Z-MAN on July 26, 2009, 11:21:55 am

My next shipment of putters has 2 extra minis . I plan on trying one out as soon as they arrive.

Is mine possibly one of those "extras"

?

Z-MAN · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2009, 11:35:53 am »

Not yet Dave. These are the Shortboard putters.

MarkCuranovic · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2009, 12:09:19 pm »

they are pretty in person... short of like the george costanza of putters... short, fat, and shiny... and who doesnt love short fat men?

i dont like mini bb8s personally, it rounds out the shape too much, which is much better suited to softer lines on an anser...

welded twisty hybrid on the way, cant wait for its arrival!

luv2golow · « **Reply #15 on:** July 26, 2009, 02:53:50 pm »

Quote from: Z-MAN on July 26, 2009, 11:35:53 am

Not yet Dave. These are the Shortboard putters.

Sigh.

After the terrible week I'm having, at least it gives me something to look forward to in the future.

nvgolfdude · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2009, 04:12:56 pm »

Quote from: 502 to Right on July 25, 2009, 11:45:21 pm

I think they're goofy. I can understand getting one for your son or daughter but otherwise I don't get the attraction. I don't see anyone playing with mini drivers or mini wedges.

I think that you will need to roll one to understand. Sign up for the Byron tester program and then you'll have some first hand experience to answer your question... BTW, I've rolled the original DH9 in Byron's shop. The sweet spot is much easier to find. I am excited about the new Mini's: 350 grams, milled, less toe-hang, and different. What's not to like?

Maverickping · « **Reply #17 on:** July 26, 2009, 07:34:22 pm »

Visually I find them very attractive and if I had one I am beyond confident they would be the real deal. Just have to get the guys to make them in left hand

Rick

502 to Right · « **Reply #18 on:** July 26, 2009, 08:00:32 pm »

I'm not trying to be a smart ass (honest!) but if mini's make one uniquely able to find the sweetspot and make more putts, why aren't any pros using them in competition?

They seem like a fad to me.

Will Par · « **Reply #19 on:** July 26, 2009, 08:02:43 pm »

I've posted in other threads my preference for a putter that is shorter from heel to toe. I think that is because this is the style of putter I learned to putt with almost 50 years ago. I find it easier to control a putter with a shorter face. But I have no idea why there is a current craze related to mini-putters. As others have posted here, I think most golfers would find putting with a more compact head appealing. This may account for the popularity of some mallet designs and the Odyssey 2-ball putter which is also short faced.

omeletpants · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2009, 08:29:59 pm »

Quote from: 502 to Right on July 26, 2009, 08:00:32 pm

I'm not trying to be a smart ass (honest!) but if mini's make one uniquely able to find the sweetspot and make more putts, why aren't any pros using them in competition?

They seem like a fad to me.

Who cares what the Pros play?

Many are paid to play their putters and will change if someone pays them more money.

tbws6 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2009, 09:46:33 pm »

Quote from: omeletpants on July 26, 2009, 08:29:59 pm

Quote from: 502 to Right on July 26, 2009, 08:00:32 pm
I'm not trying to be a smart ass (honest!) but if mini's make one uniquely able to find the sweetspot and make more putts, why aren't any pros using them in competition?

They seem like a fad to me.

Who cares what the Pros play? Many are paid to play their putters and will change if someone pays them more money.

The pros play what works best. If any PGA pro wanted a mini I'm sure SC and others would start rolling them out on tour. IMHO, the fact that no pros use minis shows there is no advantage to them.

If the pros did use a putter that was a different size to what is normal and had success, I'm sure they would sell. For example, the Response in 1986 was a big seller after Jack won his last Green Jacket. Also, no one uses a Response sized Anser today, which shows it was a fad.

jr · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2009, 10:28:15 pm »

Pros use long putters but I have never read about one person using one in one of these forums not have I ever played a round of golf with anyone using one. Pros use a lot of equipment that most people do not use.

Any putter that the user believes gives them an advantage they should use. I would not call the mini Anser head a fad. Byron has been making them for almost 20 years.

Venno · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2009, 11:12:37 pm »

Pros use Staff Bags and have caddies, maybe I should to

Sorry, but to say that becuase a pro doesnt use it, it is a fad is just silly. Pros dont use R7 Irons, so I guess we shouldnt, many pros still wear hard spikes, maybe we should?

502 to Right · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2009, 11:16:56 pm »

Quote from: Venno on July 26, 2009, 11:12:37 pm

Pros use Staff Bags and have caddies, maybe I should to

Sorry, but to say that becuase a pro doesnt use it, it is a fad is just silly. Pros dont use R7 Irons, so I guess we shouldnt, many pros still wear hard spikes, maybe we should?

Pros do use r7 irons -- see Kenny Perry. Many people who are not pros would still wear traditional spikes but can't because clubs/courses won't let them.

Name me a popular OEM putter with no tour usage.

Venno · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2009, 12:40:44 am »

Mini is not an OEM putter...

Your question was....
[/quote]

Name me a popular OEM putter with no tour usage.
[/quote]

My Answer is....

ANY SCOTTY CAMERON OTR

tbws6 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 27, 2009, 01:22:59 am »

IMO, the attraction to the Tour/High End putters is you don't have to be a Tour Pro to get the use out of them versus other Tour clubs . Not everyone has the swing speed and technique to use TW's driver, but everyone on this forum has the technique to roll a putt with his NP2.

benjatt · « **Reply #27 on:** July 27, 2009, 07:17:54 am »

I'm gonna have to go with fad on this one too. Having said that I haven't tried one so maybe it would make a good gamer, but from the way it has blown up recently (and the reasons it has blown up) point towards it being a fad.

omeletpants · « **Reply #28 on:** July 27, 2009, 09:57:57 am »

Quote from: tiger-bailey on July 26, 2009, 09:46:33 pm

Quote from: omeletpants on July 26, 2009, 08:29:59 pm
Quote from: 502 to Right on July 26, 2009, 08:00:32 pm
I'm not trying to be a smart ass (honest!) but if mini's make one uniquely able to find the sweetspot and make more putts, why aren't any pros using them in competition?

They seem like a fad to me.

Who cares what the Pros play? Many are paid to play their putters and will change if someone pays them more money.

The pros play what works best. If any PGA pro wanted a mini I'm sure SC and others would start rolling them out on tour. IMHO, the fact that no pros use minis shows there is no advantage to them.

If the pros did use a putter that was a different size to what is normal and had success, I'm sure they would sell. For example, the Response in 1986 was a big seller after Jack won his last Green Jacket. Also, no one uses a Response sized Anser today, which shows it was a fad.

Advantage? What does that mean. No putter has any inherent "advantage" over another. It's all about personal preference. You may think that having the head size as big as a toaster is an "advantage" but others don't or a 6" long blade style putter is an "advantage". But that's not an "advantage" unless someone sees it that way. So your argument makes zero sense.

502 to Right · « **Reply #29 on:** July 27, 2009, 10:07:51 am »

Quote from: Venno on July 27, 2009, 12:40:44 am

Mini is not an OEM putter...

Your question was....

Name me a popular OEM putter with no tour usage.
[/quote]

My Answer is....

ANY SCOTTY CAMERON OTR
[/quote]

Everyone knows (or should know) that Cameron OTR's are the same as tour except for the engravings.

nvgolfdude · « **Reply #30 on:** July 27, 2009, 11:32:07 am »

To those who think the Mini is but a fad, I invite you to try one.

How can anyone make an informed judgement regarding something without some personal experience with it?

If you have tried one and did not find it to your liking, so be it. BTW, take a closer look at the Cameron Squareback and Fastback models. They have reduced face sizes when compared the Newport models. :hmm:

We have 2 filled test panels for our Byron Mini, and we are happy to offer additional test panels to meet the demand to try these putters. I hope that the doubters will give a Mini a try...

tbws6 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 27, 2009, 11:41:59 pm »

Quote from: omeletpants on July 27, 2009, 09:57:57 am

Advantage? What does that mean. No putter has any inherent "advantage" over another. It's all about personal preference. You may think that having the head size as big as a toaster is an "advantage" but others don't or a 6" long blade style putter is an "advantage". But that's not an "advantage" unless someone sees it that way. So your argument makes zero sense.

There are a few designs that have shown through as the best performers for the guys who get paid the big bucks to play golf.

There is no argument, this is a discussion. When is a traditional sized Anser putter considered a toaster?

502 created a fair thread, and we are discussing it.

omeletpants · « **Reply #32 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:19:30 am »

Quote from: tiger-bailey on July 27, 2009, 11:41:59 pm

Quote from: omeletpants on July 27, 2009, 09:57:57 am

Advantage? What does that mean. No putter has any inherent "advantage" over another. It's all about personal preference. You may think that having the head size as big as a toaster is an "advantage" but others don't or a 6" long blade style putter is an "advantage". But that's not an "advantage" unless someone sees it that way. So your argument makes zero sense.

There are a few designs that have shown through as the best performers for the guys who get paid the big bucks to play golf.

There is no argument, this is a discussion. When is a traditional sized Anser putter considered a toaster?

502 created a fair thread, and we are discussing it.

Stay on topic. No one mentioned an anser, but there are plenty of putters the size of a toaster.

His post is total nonsense and just an failed attempt to take a cheap-shot at something he doesn't understand.

502 to Right · « **Reply #33 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:30:36 am »

Quote from: omeletpants on July 28, 2009, 12:19:30 am

Stay on topic. No one mentioned an anser, but there are plenty of putters the size of a toaster.

His post is total nonsense and just an failed attempt to take a cheap-shot at something he doesn't understand.

Look pal--my original post was to ask what people saw in mini putters as I don't see the appeal. The second post asked for my opinion. I gave it. We were having a rational discussion about mini putters until you came along. I still don't get the appeal of mini putter and certainly nothing you have written has changed my mind. That said, other posters here have given their rational points of view on the topic and I appreciate them.

funkyfedora · « **Reply #34 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:37:06 am »

So 502, what style of putter do you like to put with?

MarkCuranovic · « **Reply #35 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:44:48 am »

Putters definitely have inherent advantages to one another........

SBST (straight back straight thru) golfers benefit immensley from face balanced putters while ISI (in square in) golfers would benefit more from toe flow...

whether you are a "feel" player or a "mechanical" player, putter design, shape, weight, material, length, grip, and finish are all vitally important....

case in point...

over the winter i acquired and sold (like an ass to a nice guy in north mexico) a handmade stainless softtail, couldnt "feel" the putts on my carpet for whatever reason... while at the PGA SHow in january, I sprung for a very similar softtail but with a MUD finish, from the first round with it at grand Cypress I was making putts from everywhere.. easily over 125 feet worth... Im a 12 handicap golfer who putts like a 1 handicapper... and the putter "inherently" has much to do with it... the grip/finish/metal combination just resonate to me so clearly and purely, i have been using the stick exclusively for the last 25 rounds or so....

as far the "MINI"-fad ... i do think the putter, in terms of collectors value, has jumpoed the shark... for a while there were only 5, and now the count is well over 100... easily accessible for all of us... I had a betiniardi 3/4 about 18 months ago and sold it because it didnt fit mystyle.. too face balanced... skipped on another 2 for the same reason... but i just ordered a Byron with a shorter neck to increase the toe flow, hopefully, and make it suitable to my swing.. that and because it should be dead effin sexy...

and speaking of sexy... having a "sexy" putter does mean something to me... it gives me confidence having a "sweet stick".. and confidence in putting is huge... especially with the left to right 5 footer for $20.

tbws6 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:46:54 am »

Quote from: omeletpants on July 28, 2009, 12:19:30 am

Stay on topic. No one mentioned an anser, but there are plenty of putters the size of a toaster.

His post is total nonsense and just an failed attempt to take a cheap-shot at something he doesn't understand.

Again, this is a discussion. There are no cheap shots.

omeletpants · « **Reply #37 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:48:16 am »

Quote from: 502 to Right on July 28, 2009, 12:30:36 am

Quote from: omeletpants on July 28, 2009, 12:19:30 am

Stay on topic. No one mentioned an anser, but there are plenty of putters the size of a toaster.

His post is total nonsense and just an failed attempt to take a cheap-shot at something he doesn't understand.

Look pal--my original post was to ask what people saw in mini putters as I don't see the appeal. The second post asked for my opinion. I gave it. We were having a rational discussion about mini putters until you came along. I still don't get the appeal of mini putter and certainly nothing you have written has changed my mind. That said, other posters here have given their rational points of view on the topic and I appreciate them.

Until you labelled them as "goofy", so hardly rational as you describe yourself. No one starts a threads as you did without some personal ax to grind and an insult to the people that produce and use these putters. Quit starting threads with the sole purpose to troll. Thank you.

coops · « **Reply #38 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:52:07 am »

Well, to some the smaller ones look nicer......

And there was an LPGA player who used that Never Compromise 'stubby' - meant as a training aid and no wider than the golf ball.....

just as for some the Ping Doc was just too big - after all, if the 2-ball was such a success (and still is) why wouldn't the 3-ball be even better?

each to their own..... I still haven't seen a good reasoned argument for why the 'plumber's neck' is such a good thing, for that matter.

Will Par · « **Reply #39 on:** July 28, 2009, 08:20:27 am »

This is a little off topic, but adding a third ball to the two-ball putter would require other design changes. The rules of golf have restrictions on putter design. The length of the putter face must be longer than the length from front to back. If a third ball were added, the face would have to be lengthened to conform to the rules. And I think I remember seeing Azinger using a Stubby putter on tour for a short time.

jr · « **Reply #40 on:** July 28, 2009, 08:34:16 am »

Guys, we are not going to get into a pissing match between members. If you do not like what someone else posts that is fine. If you start directing your comments at the person posting in any type of derogatory manner the post will be removed. Pretend you are face to face with the other people in a social atmosphere when you post and you will not have any problems. This is not up for debate either.

KDMullins · « **Reply #41 on:** July 28, 2009, 09:46:20 am »

Quote from: omeletpants on July 28, 2009, 12:48:16 am

Quote from: 502 to Right on July 28, 2009, 12:30:36 am
Quote from: omeletpants on July 28, 2009, 12:19:30 am

Stay on topic. No one mentioned an anser, but there are plenty of putters the size of a toaster.

His post is total nonsense and just an failed attempt to take a cheap-shot at something he doesn't understand.

Look pal--my original post was to ask what people saw in mini putters as I don't see the appeal. The second post asked for my opinion. I gave it. We were having a rational discussion about mini putters until you came along. I still don't get the appeal of mini putter and certainly nothing you have written has changed my mind. That said, other posters here have given their rational points of view on the topic and I appreciate them.

Until you labelled them as "goofy", so hardly rational as you describe yourself. No one starts a threads as you did without some personal ax to grind and an insult to the people that produce and use these putters. Quit starting threads with the sole purpose to troll. Thank you.

502's not trolling. It's a legitimate question. I either have (or have had) a putter from nearly every maker on this board, and I've loved them all for one reason or another. That said, I have the same thoughts about these smaller putters. I think they look cool, and I can appreciate the effort to make them and the collectibility (sp?) factor, but I've asked myself whether I could ever seriously consider gaming one. I really haven't decided yet, but I like hearing everybody's opinions.

apprenti23 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 28, 2009, 10:02:46 am »

I think the mini putters are a great idea and would love to get my hands on one but with a shorter neck (a la zing). I've never rolled a ball with one but I think they look very nice. The crazy thing with putters is (i don't know if you go through them like most players/tour and non do) if you're a bad putter you'll try anything. If you're worse you'll try everything twice plus one. Everyone's trying to find that genie in a bottle where they'll start making everything. I would say the concept behind the smaller head (IMO) would make the ball look bigger which would also make it seem easier to hit and cover more face area (relative to the club) which would also make it seem as though you find the sweet spot more often. Speaking of fads, I thought the two-ball was a fad... ha!

502 to Right · « **Reply #43 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:08:41 am »

Quote from: funkyfedora on July 28, 2009, 12:37:06 am

So 502, what style of putter do you like to put with?

I use a Anser 2 style putter (Bettinardi BB8).

I will say for the record my intent is not to impugn any putter makers. Anyone who has followed my posts on this board since its inception knows that I am a huge fan of Bettinardi. I asked questions about a style of putter I find odd--especially in light of the prices some of these putters have pulled down in the last few months (and starting with the Cameron mini).

May the rational discussion continue.

funkyfedora · « **Reply #44 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:35:47 am »

I like anser 2 style as well but its like us saying a mallet is just a market ploy. Something fits our eye. Great. But our eyes aren't in other peoples heads. They like what they like. And as long as there is demand, then the putter makers will provide the supply...

nvgolfdude · « **Reply #45 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:43:15 am »

Well, since I sometimes get to speak for Byron

I will do so here. First, my appreciation on behalf of the Byron team to apprenti23 for his post and for his consistent participation in our test panels.

Byron did not re-introduce his Mini to spur or feed the collector's market. Although, I will concede that the limited edition Mini Coppers were somewhat of a collector item and meant to create interest, but that is called marketing ladies and gentlemen. Byron's Mini is a serious putter meant to be gamed. It will appeal to and work well for some players. It will not appeal to everyone, which is why putter makers offer a variety of designs, finishes, etc... :welder:

As someone pointed out, the 2-ball was likely once considered a "fad", now it is a mainstay of the putter market and commonly seen on tour. Only time will tell if the mini putters find a lasting niche with golfers, but as a golfer I am excited by this addition to the choices we have to get the ball in the hole.

reflog74 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:46:02 am »

I'll chime in here. IMO, there isn't any question but that the attention given to however many Cameron minis there are, has played a part in the profusion of similar models from Betti, Byron, Mills and Nead (hope I didn't miss anyone). That kind of attention results in customers asking other makers for that model and, for a company that is capable and responsive to customer requests, the answer is likely to be "sure!" I also think that in Byron's case, the DH 89 mini was a natural, since he's been updating formerly cast models with milled heads. The cast Dalehead 9 was the forerunner of all minis, IIRC. Also, since Bob Bettinardi milled the Cameron minis, reprising a similar model for himself was a "no brainer".

Just my thoughts,
John

cunham32 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 28, 2009, 04:02:53 pm »

I, for one, signed up to try the Byron mini. If I like it, I would have no trouble gaming the heck out of it. Personally, I feel I don't putt well with anything like an Anser 2. Different strokes for different folks, right? I think it's a legitimate question and has gotten a lot of legitimate answers

.

evo2 · « **Reply #48 on:** July 31, 2009, 04:41:22 pm »

My name is John and I game a two-ball....

Your gamer is all about confidence, you feel that it will work with you and not for you, in getting the ball in the hole.

I prefer my gamer to be on the smaller side, with plenty of weight, a larger back-to-front and with a double bend shaft.

I started gaming the two-ball because I didn't look past the pro-shop with the OTR putters lined up in a row. By chance I came accross this forum and all the associated milled putter brands and now I've found that there is life beyond the pro-shop. And that life includes the so-called minis!

I like the look of them (at least the pictures of them) and that in itself installs me with confidence, but do wonder if they are big enough back-to-front.......but I would definitely try one if I could, purely because they please my eye. Any technological advantage is handy.

I do hope that they are a fad, as then the prices will come down

.....but as with anything else, the price is governed by the demand and as long as there is a demand for them, the price will reflect it's popularity!

cheers

502 to Right · « **Reply #49 on:** July 31, 2009, 06:11:52 pm »

I just took a brief look through the "$40,000 mini" thread over at golfwrx. I had not done so before I started this thread. Holy schnikeys--glad I have stayed out that mess.

I just want to say that the intent of this thread was not to bring in any of that animosity. I wanted to know what the allure was of a mini putter and many people have answered me in this thread. I still don't think a mini is for me but if I ever get a chance to roll one I certainly will give it a chance.

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Author Topic: What's with the mini putters? (Read 1412 times)